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Welcome to the vitriol section, where tempers flare and our rules are relaxed somewhat. If you're not feeling the need to be sarcastic, flippant or insulting, you may want to direct your efforts elsewhere at DH.
 
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[ 9 posts ] |
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All I did was hold up a mirror
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spblat
Prolix
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:42 am
Posts: 5566
Location: Portland
In a word: Compassionate serenity
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 All I did was hold up a mirror Like me Elman, you would lie to a murderer hunting for his next victim, even though lying is wrong. This kind of "real world" case illustrates the problem with objective "natural law" morality in my opinion. [some more interesting stuff about lying and morality] All that assumes that lying is indeed evil, and not just one possible action in any given circumstance that may lead to what we consider good or bad. As spblat notes, there are plenty of circumstances where I would consider lying to be the right thing to do no matter the consequences. All that assumes that slavery is indeed evil, and not just one possible action in any given circumstance that may lead to what we consider good or bad. As spblat notes, there are plenty of circumstances where I would consider slavery to be the right thing to do no matter the consequences. Such is the nature of situational ethics. You get to pick your good/bad consequences, I get to pick mine. All I did was hold up a mirror to what Dude wrote. I said nothing more or less than he. I beg to differ. This isn't a game of Mad-Libs, I never defended slavery and your observation made it look like I had. Changing a word around, while occasionally amusing, is in my view neither persuasive nor honorable. It's bad for our friendship when you mischaracterize my views, and it is probably bad for your friendship with Some Dude when you simultaneously plagiarize and misquote him without attribution.
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| Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:40 pm |
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spblat
Prolix
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:42 am
Posts: 5566
Location: Portland
In a word: Compassionate serenity
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Re: All I did was hold up a mirror "Human black" didn't go over well either. Remember? Just to be clear, I still think abortion should be legal. I do not consider a human zygote a human being. It's a human zygote. Just to be clear, I still think slavery should be legal. I do not consider a human black a human being. It's a human black. After everyone freaked out and the dust began to settle, Arlo wrote: I only ask that I be treated the same as everyone else. Expect nothing less. If someone ever takes your plainly-worded statement of belief and produces an inflammatory and divisive ignoratio elenchi caricature of your statement and provokes an upsetting and irrelevant multithreaded flamewar in the process, demoralizing the site's operator and its few active members and simultaneously driving off potential new members who may be in search of rational debate, and then refuses to take responsibility for his actions, please let me know so that I can ask him to desist and apologize.
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"You're very sure of your facts," he said at last, "I couldn't trust the thinking of a man who takes the Universe—if there is one—for granted."
-- Douglas Adams
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| Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:41 pm |
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Arlo
Loquacious
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:05 am
Posts: 1291
In a word: Christian
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Re: All I did was hold up a mirror I thought it was obvious that my point was about situational ethics and had nothing to do with lying or slavery per se. I understand that you found my comments to be offensive. By holding up the mirror, I had hoped to show you that Dude's comments were likewise offensive to me. People who deny there is a Law Giver want to make up their own standards of right and wrong. That is okay, but you must be willing to accept that there will be others who believe like you (that there is no Law Giver) who think slavery is just fine. And then, who are you to tell them they are wrong.
Are you saying that when someone here makes a claim that I believe to be absurd, that I cannot reflect their words right back at them?
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Romans 1:20
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| Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:33 pm |
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Some Dude
Moderator
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:15 pm
Posts: 3143
Location: Directly under the earth's sun... now!
In a word: Multitasking Dude
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Re: All I did was hold up a mirror That is okay, but you must be willing to accept that there will be others who believe like you (that there is no Law Giver) who think slavery is just fine. And then, who are you to tell them they are wrong. So all violence is wrong?
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Row, row, row, your boat, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.
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| Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:47 pm |
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spblat
Prolix
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:42 am
Posts: 5566
Location: Portland
In a word: Compassionate serenity
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Re: All I did was hold up a mirror Are you saying that when someone here makes a claim that I believe to be absurd, that I cannot reflect their words right back at them? I think if you are compelled to do this, you should acknowledge that you understand that some people find it upsetting. Also I think you should use quotes and highlight the changed word. But I think you will get better results if you explain your position as you have above, rather than doing something overtly shocking and offensive when you are shocked or offended. Matthew 5:38.
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"You're very sure of your facts," he said at last, "I couldn't trust the thinking of a man who takes the Universe—if there is one—for granted."
-- Douglas Adams
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| Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:48 pm |
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Arlo
Loquacious
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:05 am
Posts: 1291
In a word: Christian
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Re: All I did was hold up a mirror A very reasonable request and I agree with it completely. Please allow me a little slack. I will do my best to comply, but as my wife can attest, my memory isn't what it used to be and probably never was. I confess to opening my mouth before engaging my brain. If I should offend in this way in the future, please correct me and feel free to delete my post.
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Romans 1:20
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| Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:11 pm |
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Some Dude
Moderator
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:15 pm
Posts: 3143
Location: Directly under the earth's sun... now!
In a word: Multitasking Dude
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Re: All I did was hold up a mirror As a side note, I wasn't offended.
_________________
Row, row, row, your boat, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.
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| Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:16 pm |
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Ozymandias
Fulsome
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:24 pm
Posts: 903
In a word: godless
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Re: All I did was hold up a mirror I thought it was obvious that my point was about situational ethics and had nothing to do with lying or slavery per se. I understand that you found my comments to be offensive. By holding up the mirror, I had hoped to show you that Dude's comments were likewise offensive to me. People who deny there is a Law Giver want to make up their own standards of right and wrong. That is okay, but you must be willing to accept that there will be others who believe like you (that there is no Law Giver) who think slavery is just fine. And then, who are you to tell them they are wrong.
Are you saying that when someone here makes a claim that I believe to be absurd, that I cannot reflect their words right back at them? I understood what you meant Arlo by the example, but I have a question about your Law. It says lying is wrong. Is it against your Law to lie if it was to protect someone from being murdered? Edit: Never mind, I noticed you answered this in the other thread. Our conceptions of morality are indeed very different.
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| Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:24 pm |
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spblat
Prolix
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:42 am
Posts: 5566
Location: Portland
In a word: Compassionate serenity
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Re: All I did was hold up a mirror A very reasonable request and I agree with it completely. Please allow me a little slack. I will do my best to comply, but as my wife can attest, my memory isn't what it used to be and probably never was. I confess to opening my mouth before engaging my brain. If I should offend in this way in the future, please correct me and feel free to delete my post. I have no plans to delete anything. I'll just remind you of this conversation. Thanks 
_________________
"You're very sure of your facts," he said at last, "I couldn't trust the thinking of a man who takes the Universe—if there is one—for granted."
-- Douglas Adams
Are you on Facebook? Become a DH fan!
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| Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:39 pm |
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